Songwriting - anyone writing (besides me)?

[Dinosaur David B]

Being in a new music project since late January has been a real sanity-saver for me under lockdown. As usual, I started off slow. I hadn't written anything new since the last few Feints things. But here, I started out re-working and re-arranging existing songs the singer had kicking around. Those are great fun, punky, poppy songs we're riffing-up into something more riff-rock than punk.


But as I knew would happen, a few months in, my own dormant-since-Feints songwriting instincts kicked in, and I've started writing again. Both music AND lyrics (which is new for me) this time.


Back in the Feints days, I would bring in riffs and song parts and work with Amy, who's a WAY better (genius) songwriter than I am to turn them in to great songs. Sure, I'd help with the lyrics, and suggest ideas and specific lyrics, but my feeling has always been: I'm not the one singing the lyrics. Defer to whoever is. Unless they're clueless.


In this project, it's really ALL on me. To take the existing unfinished and incomplete ideas and turn them into good songs. And guess what? I seem to have learned a LOT by osmosis from working Amy in my time with Feints. Both in terms of arrangement and in terms of writing songs from scratch.


Put simply, In the last couple of months, I'm coming up with some of the best, hookiest, catchiest, songs I've ever written -- by myself. Do they have the sophistication that Amy brought to the Feints stuff? No. They're much simpler, meat-and-potatoes rock songs. But they DO have cool riffis, and really hooky/catchy choruses that get stuck in your head and keep you awake while your trying to sleep.


I also had a completely new experience in late June than I'd never had before. I wrote a complete song -- all music, lyrics, and vocal melody -- by myself in under 24 hours. It truly hit me like a bolt of lightning, and it came out great. From the idea inception -- to write a very personal song about my father succumbing to Alzheimers -- to the lyrics (I've NEVER written the words first), to picking up a guitar the next morning, and having the music just pour out of me in less than an hour. Perhaps it was the intensely personal subject matter.


But other songs are coming now, too.

And yes, it's all VERY Dino.


We've got about 10 songs now, 95% worked-out and demoed. All done remote via Zoom/Skype. Making the lemonade from the COVID lemons.


Anyone else WRITING?

[Cyberattack]

Congrats on the bolt-of-lightning song that came in 24 hours, that's always a good sign. Sometimes I think a big part of being creative is just setting yourself up to be receptive to inspiration like that.


I'm writing too, I put out my first album as a lead singer earlier this year, so I'm writing the material to the follow-up for that. One kinda interesting thing this time around is that I'm not sure how soon I'm gonna be able to do real rehearsals with my musicians again, or get in a nice recording studio, so I'm trying to find ways to make this material sound good if I end up playing and recording everything myself.

[bourbonsamurai]

Dinosaur David B said:


Being in a new music project since late January has been a real sanity-saver for me under lockdown. As usual, I started off slow. I hadn't written anything new since the last few Feints things. But here, I started out re-working and re-arranging existing songs the singer had kicking around. Those are great fun, punky, poppy songs we're riffing-up into something more riff-rock than punk.


But as I knew would happen, a few months in, my own dormant-since-Feints songwriting instincts kicked in, and I've started writing again. Both music AND lyrics (which is new for me) this time.


Back in the Feints days, I would bring in riffs and song parts and work with Amy, who's a WAY better (genius) songwriter than I am to turn them in to great songs. Sure, I'd help with the lyrics, and suggest ideas and specific lyrics, but my feeling has always been: I'm not the one singing the lyrics. Defer to whoever is. Unless they're clueless.


In this project, it's really ALL on me. To take the existing unfinished and incomplete ideas and turn them into good songs. And guess what? I seem to have learned a LOT by osmosis from working Amy in my time with Feints. Both in terms of arrangement and in terms of writing songs from scratch.


Put simply, In the last couple of months, I'm coming up with some of the best, hookiest, catchiest, songs I've ever written -- by myself. Do they have the sophistication that Amy brought to the Feints stuff? No. They're much simpler, meat-and-potatoes rock songs. But they DO have cool riffis, and really hooky/catchy choruses that get stuck in your head and keep you awake while your trying to sleep.


I also had a completely new experience in late June than I'd never had before. I wrote a complete song -- all music, lyrics, and vocal melody -- by myself in under 24 hours. It truly hit me like a bolt of lightning, and it came out great. From the idea inception -- to write a very personal song about my father succumbing to Alzheimers -- to the lyrics (I've NEVER written the words first), to picking up a guitar the next morning, and having the music just pour out of me in less than an hour. Perhaps it was the intensely personal subject matter.


But other songs are coming now, too.

And yes, it's all VERY Dino.


We've got about 10 songs now, 95% worked-out and demoed. All done remote via Zoom/Skype. Making the lemonade from the COVID lemons.


Anyone else WRITING?


[/quote]
i've written three songs so far, lyrics first, which is new. i'm not very good at it yet, but i'm getting the idea that it may provide a bit of depth my music has lacked in the past. i mean, we're all at least decent guitarists, here. it's not gonna be rocket surgery to just blast away, at this point, so why do it? in my case, i've probably rested on my gimmick too long, which has been to always bring as clean and uncluttered sound to the gig as possible. that really is a useful gimmick, BTW, if anybody reading this is interested in finding sub, or pickup work. lol but, the idea of crafting a piece of music to fit the lyrics, that's new to me. i'm keeping things real simple, because they don't need to be complicated yet.

[Dinosaur David B]

Cyberattack said:


Congrats on the bolt-of-lightning song that came in 24 hours, that's always a good sign.


[/quote]
It has never happened like that to me before. Totally unique experience. Usually I stumble over a riff or a progression one day, and perhaps figure out other parts on another day, then begin fitting words to it.


The other thing is this. Since I've had to re-arrange a lot of old songs I didn't initially write (they were more like sketches than full-realized songs), I've also had to revise or often totally re-write the lyrics for them as well. And I've found that once I have a topic, lyrics come pretty quickly to me now.


That's also new. But I think it's just like anything else. The more you do it, the better you get at it. We did a song about the singer's early life which was tough. He told me the story, I took some notes, and an hour after I spoke to him, I had the lyrics. On another one, he had an initial thought or two, and I ended up coming up with the the other 95% of it.


I also helped the other guitarist with lyrics of a song of his. He had written lyrics that looked fine on paper as thoughts, but they lacked lyrical sensibility, and they weren't practical to sing. Somehow, I knew that instinctively and was able to adjust them accordingly.


So somewhere along the line, I subconsciously learned how to write lyrics.


bourbonsamurai said:


i've written three songs so far, lyrics first, which is new. i'm not very good at it yet, but i'm getting the idea that it may provide a bit of depth my music has lacked in the past.


[/quote]
As I said, the more you do it, the easier it comes.


bourbonsamurai said:



i've probably rested on my gimmick too long, which has been to always bring as clean and uncluttered sound to the gig as possible. that really is a useful gimmick


[/quote]


[/quote]
Instead of calling it a gimmick, perhaps you should start thinking about that aspect of your playing (and the rhythm work you've mentioned before) as your own style? (Or at least the sonic aspect of your style). The what-makes-you, you aspect of your playing. Play long enough and we all end up with a style that is our own. (Whether it's particularly distinctive or intriguing to other players is another matter). But we all end up with one. And unless you are one of those players who aggressively addresses their weaknesses, it's more frequently based on leaning towards our strengths and away from our weaknesses. Most of us use what works easily for us, and avoid what doesn't. As soon as you start making those choices -- consciously or not -- you're developing your own style.


I listen to the stuff I'm coming up with today and while I'm a better player now than I was in Feints, I still hear things I'm doing now that I did then. I'm starting to realize that's "my style." My signature trademarks. Not just a set of licks I use frequently, but also certain melodic choices that recur. And it's easier to see them now because they're spanning over two different musical projects.

[Haffner]

Dinosaur David B said:


Being in a new music project since late January has been a real sanity-saver for me under lockdown. As usual, I started off slow. I hadn't written anything new since the last few Feints things. But here, I started out re-working and re-arranging existing songs the singer had kicking around. Those are great fun, punky, poppy songs we're riffing-up into something more riff-rock than punk.


But as I knew would happen, a few months in, my own dormant-since-Feints songwriting instincts kicked in, and I've started writing again. Both music AND lyrics (which is new for me) this time.


Back in the Feints days, I would bring in riffs and song parts and work with Amy, who's a WAY better (genius) songwriter than I am to turn them in to great songs. Sure, I'd help with the lyrics, and suggest ideas and specific lyrics, but my feeling has always been: I'm not the one singing the lyrics. Defer to whoever is. Unless they're clueless.


In this project, it's really ALL on me. To take the existing unfinished and incomplete ideas and turn them into good songs. And guess what? I seem to have learned a LOT by osmosis from working Amy in my time with Feints. Both in terms of arrangement and in terms of writing songs from scratch.


Put simply, In the last couple of months, I'm coming up with some of the best, hookiest, catchiest, songs I've ever written -- by myself. Do they have the sophistication that Amy brought to the Feints stuff? No. They're much simpler, meat-and-potatoes rock songs. But they DO have cool riffis, and really hooky/catchy choruses that get stuck in your head and keep you awake while your trying to sleep.


I also had a completely new experience in late June than I'd never had before. I wrote a complete song -- all music, lyrics, and vocal melody -- by myself in under 24 hours. It truly hit me like a bolt of lightning, and it came out great. From the idea inception -- to write a very personal song about my father succumbing to Alzheimers -- to the lyrics (I've NEVER written the words first), to picking up a guitar the next morning, and having the music just pour out of me in less than an hour. Perhaps it was the intensely personal subject matter.


But other songs are coming now, too.

And yes, it's all VERY Dino.


We've got about 10 songs now, 95% worked-out and demoed. All done remote via Zoom/Skype. Making the lemonade from the COVID lemons.


Anyone else WRITING?


[/quote]
This all sounds great! And yes, I'm still writing for the solo album. For me things come together the ways you described, but this time there's all that plus being inspired by my vocalist's style as well as the Doom metal genre as a whole.


I catch myself trying to separate what's my signature thing and what just seems plain repetitive a lot.

[Dinosaur David B]

Haffner said:


I catch myself trying to separate what's my signature thing and what just seems plain repetitive a lot.


[/quote]


I was talking with Andy G. about that a few weeks back. If you start to look at it closely, you'll realize that a LOT of the guys we love ARE very repetitive. More than we think they are.


I know personally, that if I play the same ostinato lick, say, 4 times in a row in a solo, I start to feel like I should get off this and move on to something else. But guys like Gary and Schenker (among others), will play a lick like that longer.


The other thing that may not be apparent at the surface level, is that a lot of people are very formulaic in the construction of their songs and solos. And I started to realize -- as I'm composing a bunch of new solos -- that I was doing it, too. And I started to worry about it for a minute, but then I thought, wait a minute. Being formulaic is NOT always, categorically a BAD thing. The vast majority of songs follow formulaic song form (ABACAB) for example. It's what makes them accessible, successful, and repeatable.


And with solos, for example,I LOVED Schenker's solos when they WERE formulaic. I haven't liked them or even remembered any of them since he STOPPED being formulaic. Similarly, most of Gary Moore rock solos follow a very similar "story arc."


And since MY schooling on how to compose solos came from the guys who WERE formulaic AND repetitive, of course I am, too. So while I keep it in mind, and look for ways of changing up the pieces, I find myself using the same general concepts repeatedly. The results ARE effective solos people remember. Isn't that all you can ask for? If that's the outcome, I don't care if they're repetitive or formulaic. The guys I liked best didn't worry about that, so I'm not going to lose sleep over it either.

[Haffner]

One thing I learned after staying too long in the avante-garde mode is....I liked simpler stuff better before I started experimenting, and I love it again now. I try to make my arrangements interesting enough, but when you listen to the music for my solo album you're not going to hear much straying. i love writing in the old, tried and true, adored modes. it feels like coming home and it sounds great.


There's a lot to be said about the formulas we grew up with, for one thing we all love those formulas. Most of us here got pissed when our favorites started messing around too much. Well, I sure am glad I got that out of my system because the old stuff is the best. I'd be surprised if I'm alone on these sentiments, especially here.


A bit peripheral here, but I never get tired of playing the Randy Rhoads pentatonic lick that starts off the Mr. Crowley first solo, and I believe it actually might go back even farther than Page's Communication Breakdown. Schenker loved that same lick too....everybody does. It sounds great and it brings a killer, rocking groove. So if I think it fits a song's rasison d'etre, I'm going to play the bejesus out of it. Plus, I love playing that (and countless other super fun, old-as-God licks) by myself when I'm just messing around.


Whatever fits, whatever makes your song or even solo something that satisfies you, THAT'S good.


And if someone basically rewrites the same chord changes over and over again (AC/DC is an example, Obituary)...as long as I hear passion, imagination, and BLOOD in it I want to hear it. Because that to me is great music.

[Dinosaur David B]

Yep.. There's a lot of 40-60 year-old guitar licks STILL doing ALL of the heavy lifting. And they remain enormously satisfying. Tried and true stuff still works and ALWAYS works. It's like playing in minor or major for a while, the minute you go back to minor pentatonic or blues licks, it's like instant sonic viagra.

[Haffner]

Dinosaur David B said:


Yep.. There's a lot of 40-60 year-old guitar licks STILL doing ALL of the heavy lifting. And they remain enormously satisfying. Tried and true stuff still works and ALWAYS works. It's like playing in minor or major for a while, the minute you go back to minor pentatonic or blues licks, it's like instant sonic viagra.


[/quote]
<3

[bourbonsamurai]

Dinosaur David B said:


Yep.. There's a lot of 40-60 year-old guitar licks STILL doing ALL of the heavy lifting. And they remain enormously satisfying. Tried and true stuff still works and ALWAYS works. It's like playing in minor or major for a while, the minute you go back to minor pentatonic or blues licks, it's like instant sonic viagra.


[/quote]
yeah that's all the way right. the creative challenge lies in finding new ways to frame those sounds. it's fun. hey Dave, that's my whole "thing". you already know it.